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Islamic law on rape?
Why is the woman stoned or whatever for being raped? I would have though a little sympathy would be more in order!
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For monkey eyes. But please read it with open heart and let me know what d you think.
http://www.hudoodordinance.com/hudoodbk.pdf
http://www.hudoodordinance.com/hudoodbk.pdf
Ruby � I entirely agree. I�m not saying western civilization is anywhere near perfect when it comes to women�s rights. There are many areas where western governments and judiciary could do a whole lot better. I�m certainly not self congratulatory. This was a question about how Islam treats rape victims and women in general.
Keyplus � OK, you make comments like �I do not think you can impress any one with your propaganda�. My posts do not include propaganda, unlike yours.
Also, writing in bold type does not make your statements anymore true or false.
�� and the reason is that they are forced to mix it up with Socialism, Capitalism, Communism, imperialism and so on sometimes to make western countries happy and some time to avoid sanctions� Really? Are you saying that Iran makes it�s laws in order to make the West happy? I fail to see how the subjugation of women will somehow make the western governments feel better. Or do you think that Iran�s existing laws are a �watered down� version of Islam to impress the West? If you do, then what exactly are you suggesting? That women should be even more subjugated than they are now and that Islamic countries are somehow not showing their true face for fear or upsetting the West. If you can think of a way that women could be made to feel more of an underclass, I�d be very interested to hear what you have to say.
Keyplus � OK, you make comments like �I do not think you can impress any one with your propaganda�. My posts do not include propaganda, unlike yours.
Also, writing in bold type does not make your statements anymore true or false.
�� and the reason is that they are forced to mix it up with Socialism, Capitalism, Communism, imperialism and so on sometimes to make western countries happy and some time to avoid sanctions� Really? Are you saying that Iran makes it�s laws in order to make the West happy? I fail to see how the subjugation of women will somehow make the western governments feel better. Or do you think that Iran�s existing laws are a �watered down� version of Islam to impress the West? If you do, then what exactly are you suggesting? That women should be even more subjugated than they are now and that Islamic countries are somehow not showing their true face for fear or upsetting the West. If you can think of a way that women could be made to feel more of an underclass, I�d be very interested to hear what you have to say.
With regard to our own (British) society, I agree that there are many, many things that are wrong. However, I sincerely believe that Islam is not the answer.
Yet again Keyplus, you dodge the questions, attempt to muddy the waters and generally fail to justify your position. By saying �oh it�s just Birdie with his/her propaganda again�, who do you think you are convincing?
By the way, can you show me evidence that Iran�s laws are different than how I have reported them to be? I know you can�t, but it will be interesting for you to try.
Yet again Keyplus, you dodge the questions, attempt to muddy the waters and generally fail to justify your position. By saying �oh it�s just Birdie with his/her propaganda again�, who do you think you are convincing?
By the way, can you show me evidence that Iran�s laws are different than how I have reported them to be? I know you can�t, but it will be interesting for you to try.
You know what Birdie I have had enough of your stubborn behaviour. I have said at least ten time that there are no countries in the world with proper Islamic System. And for some reason you keep on ignoring that and giving me examples of Saudi arabia, Iran, Pakistan and so on. Trust me I have no more time for you or the patience. Because for some unknown reason you are either not paying attention to what I am saying or you are just pretending ignorance. I have counted and this is third time I am saying that give me examples from authentic Islamic teachings. You may even forget that and trust me I would take your words that Islam is not the answer. You go an get the trophy. But do tell me any other answer you do find.
Hello again Keyplus � Not a happy bunny are we?
�You know what Birdie I have had enough of your stubborn behaviour. I have said at least ten time that there are no countries in the world with proper Islamic System.�
Stubborn behaviour? What exactly do you mean by that?
I can only assume that it is because I refuse to agree with you. And what, pray tell, is a �proper Islamic system�? As I understand it, the Taliban were under the impression that they had a proper Islamic system. As do the ruling powers of Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. Your understanding of a proper Islam system is at odds with the powers that be in these countries. Are you saying that you, and you alone, understand Islam far better than the rulers of these nations? You must be a true genius. All these countries keep getting it wrong and all they had to do was give you a ring to put them straight.
Your arrogance is truly astronomical.
Keyplus, I feel very sorry for you. You have been utterly brainwashed to the point where rational thought is no longer an option for you.
Enjoy your life worshipping a none existent sky fairy whose teachings were brought to you by an insane, murdering, paedophile.
�You know what Birdie I have had enough of your stubborn behaviour. I have said at least ten time that there are no countries in the world with proper Islamic System.�
Stubborn behaviour? What exactly do you mean by that?
I can only assume that it is because I refuse to agree with you. And what, pray tell, is a �proper Islamic system�? As I understand it, the Taliban were under the impression that they had a proper Islamic system. As do the ruling powers of Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. Your understanding of a proper Islam system is at odds with the powers that be in these countries. Are you saying that you, and you alone, understand Islam far better than the rulers of these nations? You must be a true genius. All these countries keep getting it wrong and all they had to do was give you a ring to put them straight.
Your arrogance is truly astronomical.
Keyplus, I feel very sorry for you. You have been utterly brainwashed to the point where rational thought is no longer an option for you.
Enjoy your life worshipping a none existent sky fairy whose teachings were brought to you by an insane, murdering, paedophile.
Robb Phoenix � No one�s confusing adultery with rape. Unfortunately though in Islam, if a married woman is raped and reports the offender to the authorities then what she is effectively saying is this� �I have had sex outside of marriage�. If she cannot prove she has been raped, which is practically impossible to do under Islamic law, then she is admitting (albeit unwittingly) to adultery.
Hardly fair methinks.
Hardly fair methinks.
birdie1971 <\b>
Quote:
"If she cannot prove she has been raped, which is practically impossible to do under Islamic law<\b>, then she is admitting (albeit unwittingly) to adultery."
I have lived in Saudi Arabia for 16 years so I know a lot about Islam though my religion is otherwise.
Proving rape in Islamic law is nearly the same like how they do it here (bruises) etc.But if the women was in a state of seclusion (khulwa) with the man before the rape took place then the woman would be in trouble and may be flogged.
The crazed ones here abuse the khulwa concept to include cars and even restaurants!!!!!!!!
Quote:
"If she cannot prove she has been raped, which is practically impossible to do under Islamic law<\b>, then she is admitting (albeit unwittingly) to adultery."
I have lived in Saudi Arabia for 16 years so I know a lot about Islam though my religion is otherwise.
Proving rape in Islamic law is nearly the same like how they do it here (bruises) etc.But if the women was in a state of seclusion (khulwa) with the man before the rape took place then the woman would be in trouble and may be flogged.
The crazed ones here abuse the khulwa concept to include cars and even restaurants!!!!!!!!
I have to say it - we are light years ahead in civility here in the West. We are far from perfect, but closer to perfection and paradise than any society in the Islamic world. It's un-pc to say so, but it's the truth.
Even in the fairer West, the handling of rape can never be 100% just to both "victim" and "assailant". Currently in Britain victims are assured anonymity, the accused is not. If he is found not guilty, the suspicion will remain on him forever. Some men rape and get away with it. Some women falsely accuse men of rape and he's robbed of his liberty. Who can ever be sure of the statistics regarding the truth of the matter? In fairness to both parties, there have to be questions, interrogations. That's deeply unpleasant for a victim but only fair for an accused.
In some Islamic countries, a woman who is raped is safer if she keeps quiet about it. No justice for her. For if she can't produce 4 male witnesses to back up her allegation, she will be executed for adultery.
Some Islamic societies are slightly less harsh; they will merely throw the "adulterous" woman in jail for many years.
Some Islamic societies are crafty - they don't have official punishment for rape victims who can't prove their claims but they turn a blind eye to "honour" killings committed against the victim by her own family.
Some Islamic countries claim to fight against "vice", usually just a cover for constraints upon female self-expression and determination. Yet free thinking females are put in the town square on the charge of adultery just because she didn't know her place or horror of horrors, had sex with a person of her choice. The slavering mob of sadists and misogynists, who in contrast really do live in their idea of paradise, are allowed to take part in stoning her to an agonising death.
I'd be interested to learn of any Islamic country who is as fair to women as Western nations are.
Even in the fairer West, the handling of rape can never be 100% just to both "victim" and "assailant". Currently in Britain victims are assured anonymity, the accused is not. If he is found not guilty, the suspicion will remain on him forever. Some men rape and get away with it. Some women falsely accuse men of rape and he's robbed of his liberty. Who can ever be sure of the statistics regarding the truth of the matter? In fairness to both parties, there have to be questions, interrogations. That's deeply unpleasant for a victim but only fair for an accused.
In some Islamic countries, a woman who is raped is safer if she keeps quiet about it. No justice for her. For if she can't produce 4 male witnesses to back up her allegation, she will be executed for adultery.
Some Islamic societies are slightly less harsh; they will merely throw the "adulterous" woman in jail for many years.
Some Islamic societies are crafty - they don't have official punishment for rape victims who can't prove their claims but they turn a blind eye to "honour" killings committed against the victim by her own family.
Some Islamic countries claim to fight against "vice", usually just a cover for constraints upon female self-expression and determination. Yet free thinking females are put in the town square on the charge of adultery just because she didn't know her place or horror of horrors, had sex with a person of her choice. The slavering mob of sadists and misogynists, who in contrast really do live in their idea of paradise, are allowed to take part in stoning her to an agonising death.
I'd be interested to learn of any Islamic country who is as fair to women as Western nations are.
What I can not get people to believe is also said by few others. Thanks Rob for clarifying to Little Birdie of Islamic knowledge about how rape is proven in Islamic law. Thanks for one more thing and that is the you are a None Muslim. Because when I say the same thing people always take it as negative only they know I am Muslim. Rob just as a simple interest as you have spent a long time in Saudi Arabia, I want to ask how many people did you really see there with their one hand chopped off. I have only been there once for Umra in 1991 for only two weeks. So obviously do not know as much as you do.
You may get help from NikkiB and let me know.
And I would like to learn about any Western country where woman is any thing apart from a sex partner. I would like to learn about any country where you think about your neighbour and you friend like your brothers and their wives like your sisters and their daughters like your own daughters (to give them respect) and do not try to pull them in bed behind your brothers (friend�s) back. I would like to know about any western country where incest sex is almost non- existent. I like to know any western country where there are no old people homes. I like to know about any western country where woman does not have to think about face lift and boob job to stay in the market. I can go on and on and on but one thing I do know Of course 100% people are never in the same boat any where in the world, and we talk about a %age. so my due respect to all who do not fit in this example
And I would like to learn about any Western country where woman is any thing apart from a sex partner. I would like to learn about any country where you think about your neighbour and you friend like your brothers and their wives like your sisters and their daughters like your own daughters (to give them respect) and do not try to pull them in bed behind your brothers (friend�s) back. I would like to know about any western country where incest sex is almost non- existent. I like to know any western country where there are no old people homes. I like to know about any western country where woman does not have to think about face lift and boob job to stay in the market. I can go on and on and on but one thing I do know Of course 100% people are never in the same boat any where in the world, and we talk about a %age. so my due respect to all who do not fit in this example
